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Just to get this thread back on topic - Structural parts like (handle bars and frames) tend to break where the stress is higher than the material can carry. Sometimes this is due to higher loads than expected (see picture of Seth), places where the material strength is "low" (material too thin) or places where there is a discontinuity in strength / flex. The flex discontinuity are frequently due to an abruptly ending gusset on aluminum or the edge of a ply in a composite structure. If you have seen properly repaired composite parts they try to maintain the flex characteristics all the way around the repair. The handle bar in this video broke at the edge of the heat affected zone from the crossbar weld. I don't know if this handle bar was originally manufactured with that cross bar or it was added later. Typically, original manufacturers know about heat affected zones and heat treat the part after welding. But even if the handle bar had been heat treated, the crossbar itself creates a 'stiffer' mid section and a much more flexible outer sections. I would expect it to break right where it broke. As far as adding more material / strength, it works well. But only if the reinforcement is designed to transition from 'stiffer' to 'more flexible' over a wide enough span to not create a stress concentration. So it you want to stick a metal part into your handle bars to reinforce them, make sure you include a transition zone. If you leave out the transition zone all you do is move the point of failure to the edge of the reinforcement.

whats upp errrrbody, just got back from AF super late last night. The weekend and the AngelFire 5 DH race, 2 day event was awesome! Race course 1 - Boulder Dash - one of the most popular trails at the bike park. Boulder dash is a blue rated trail that has endless tabletop jumps from top to bottom. I had a pretty clean run and ended up 6th of 27 in the open men category, 1.0 seconds away from 4th place. fitness is where I could've improved my time on this course. there were some flat areas where I could've cranked harder and stayed out of the saddle and made up more time Race Course 2 - Chillin' to Lemonade - Chillin is one of the gnarliest double black trails on the mountain. steep and very chunky, many opportunities to get caught up hard if you get comfortable, and connects to the Lemonade trail, which is a very fast and bermy blue trail. I felt super fast up top in the gnarly stuff but my rear tire slid out in one of the huge berms on upper chillin', it felt like I got on my bike again really quickly, but watching the video, it was about a 12 second mistake. the time loss dropped me down 2 spots for 8th place for the day, and 8th place overall for the event. a couple of mentions - these DH race formats are different than the local enduros. at the local enduros, they strap a timing chip on your bike and say "go do all the stages in any order and at your own pace, have fun". whereas these dh races, you have a specific number plate, specific start time, and you have to line up and watch people launch until its your turn. the nerves and anxiety leading up to your run it a hardcore mental game! check it out - also - day 1 I raced my beloved Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail 160/160 27.5, was an excellent choice for the boulder dash race course. But after me race run, I felt pretty pumped and decided to do a hot lap down World Cup DH with a group of guys there. In the front of the pack, in one of the gnarliest sections of the trail. the unthinkable happened. My Chromag BZA Carbon 800mm bar's left grip snapped off with zero warning in the middle of pinning it through a nasty rock garden! I went down pretty hard but luckily landed in about the softest part of the whole trail. missed any big rocks any everything. my reaction was mainly adrenaline and having the shit scared out of me once that grip broke away!

2007 Cannondale Prophet. :-)

Yes, the bars have specs and so do the things with clamps. I have found that there are often incompatibilities. Some bars are rated for 3-4Nm while a lot of clampy things are rated at 5-7Nm. As an example, I run bar ends. I believe those are 6-7Nm. My older TruVativ bars specifically say no bar-ends allowed. I machined aluminum pieces to fit inside the area where the bars clamp to deal with that issue. As to the other things like brake levers, I go with the bar specs and use carbon paste. It works well to keep shifters and levers from spinning.

On the big / long climbs I watch my heart rate. Once I hit my anaerobic threshold I get off and walk. I have to walk slow enough that I stay aerobic. Know where your anaerobic threshold is and plan how you want to spend your anaerobic efforts. I read somewhere that most people have about an hour per day of anaerobic effort in them. World class athletes may build that up to about 2 hours. I need to save my "hour" for the efforts on the trail, not the road. I posted on Mojo a while back that I find my "most efficient pace". That is the pace I am covering lots of ground with low effort. Less effort is easier but I don't cover as much ground. Faster requires much more effort than the increase in speed justifies. I find that my "most efficient pace" is a lot faster than would expect it to be. On the big climbs I slow down to try to stay in the most efficient pace / aerobic zone but I am still covering a lot of ground. Part of that is maintaining momentum starting up the climb. Part is downshifting to stay aerobic.

FSA K-Force bar on my hardtail (bought the bike used and the bar came with it) standard 3K weave carbon at least on the outside. Easton Haven bar on my Blur that I bought new has a unidirectional finish layer, not sure about the inside layers. Both bars have been great and the K-Force is now on my sons little project bike. While a M3 bolt looks tiny it's still fully capable of tightening a clamp beyond the torque specs for the bar. ALWAYS use a torque wrench when mounting parts to carbon. And yes, I prefer to use a beam style torque wrench. Unless of course you prefer to keep your levers loose so that they rotate in the event of a crash. There are so many people running carbon bars out there with zero issues, and I would argue that they are by far the majority. Like most things they can fail. It's a calculated risk. Glad you're ok.

I rode Courtyard on an "endurance" excursion this weekend for the first time. It was not possible for me to be moving yet also keep my effort level in the endurance range. I imagine you'd want to keep those types of efforts to a minimum, or be ready for them. Lots of grunting. I need to pull a Colin Chapman and "add lightness".

Seth, I think Chromag is the problem, not all carbon bars. Buy Renthal Carbon Fatbar, you'll be happy.

My dad in 1938.

We got hammered with rain on Labor Day and it's drizzling still today. I won't check the trail for a couple of days. I'll post back when "good to go."

I was just gonna say how badass it is that someone said sorry and I wuz gonna respect that, Cuz. Just for this I will create a haiku in the spirit of our forever hero who died doing what he loved Mehoway. Sum times wee fuck up but it's cool to make it right never is too late

Why share something you don't find useful?

Back in the day before the Tuesday SS ride became the R&I I joked with Anthony Sloan about riding his cross bike so I could keep up on my rigid SS. [emoji849] It was the time of year that it was a night ride, it was dusty as hell, which makes it sketchy if you’re not out front. I didn’t realize his cross bike was a Redline SS cross. Fool did everything including the drop to the creek on the southside most skip for the flow trail. There was lots of whoops, gut busting oh shit moments, but fool never ate it. Man that guy could ride a bike. RIP brother! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I've had carbon Renthal Fat Bars on my Mach 6 for 2 plus years with no issues. I wipe them clean and check them regularly. Granted I don't pound them like Seth but I haven't exactly been nice to them either.

I put carbon bars on my single speed to test out the comfort thing, and I don't really get it. I notice that they're more flexy but it doesn't translate into comfort for me. The carbon seat post is great though. Carbon bars probably break at a lever clamp because the clamp prohibits the bar from deflecting naturally and concentrates stress. I don't think it's necessarily a sign of over tightening.

Didn't mean to be a Debbie Downer as the trails are still as fine as frog hair overall. There are more miles of trail at RHR than ever before. You just have to bring your own eats and drinks while practicing forgiveness on the gravel mining ops and avoid going all Edward Abbey on them.

What I appreciate about Seth's riding is his commitment... No double-mindedness. No should I or should I not questioning of himself... It's what you see in pro-level riders.

Homemade tubeless sealant I cut valves from old tubes and wrap as much teflon tape around them as possible. (Might start a new thread about how much I love teflon tape) I use wine corks as bar plugs. (got sick of losing the plastic ESI ones) I use gorilla glue and patches cut from old tubes to repair tires with small sidewall tears. I've used everything from 3M insulated mastic electrical tape to used tubes and tires for frame protection.

You just described 5 guys at Camp Eagle last weekend. :) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I ride an 11 year old bike with 26" wheels. 🤷‍♂️

Why didn't you talk about it in this thread?

A thread that's split, duh.

Put you hands in the hooks and get your lever blades closer. Set it up more like a "dirt drop" if you must. It's almost impossible to loose grip down there. When you get old, just get a taller stem. No need for a flat/riser bar unless your frame is already too big for you.

Yeah. Walnut is a smooth trail until you get a cx bike out there. Wrists and chest hurting just thinking about it. But damn it’s a blast.

I don't think I said that you said "just glucose". If I did it wasn't my intention. All I said was that the science points to a steady stream of glucose being essential, which is scary for me. I was merely piggy-backing your response - not countering any of your statements. I think the scary thing about my "medical condition" is that pre-diabetes technically isn't a medical condition and by the measures used to calculate it, millions of individuals have "it" and don't even realize it. I've been very athletic my entire adult life and have never been overweight; yet I found myself awakening in an ambulance because my blood sugar reached a potentially fatal level without me knowing that I had a "medical condition" or even knowing anything about metabolism. Perhaps the lesson for me here and potential warning to others is that I spent 20 years excelling at the highest amateur level of a demanding sport (racquetball) without ever paying attention to nutrition, recovery, etc. Understanding all of the science and getting that stuff right to begin with is probably a big key to longevity in any sport.

OK, we will not have that. Plan b is an urban R&I, if anyone wants details ping me.

I know how you feel. My CX bike now has a flat bar on it. I am MUCH more comfortable.

^This guys gets it.

Yeah, I rode with a mutual friend yesterday on their brand new ibis and they mentioned that they were bringing the process to the US. They really loved the bike. I not not sure if I would take an $800 delta over Taiwan, but would be more interested if it was $800 over China. Taiwan generally has really good quality control and oversight relative to china. China is still the Wild West and you really need to ride herd over your processes there.

Wife's bikes have had chromag cutlass bars for a couple years and they are a bit flexy for sure. However, she weighs nothing and is a XC/Trail rider at best so fingers crossed. Another bike has performance house brand carbon bars (i think same company that does ritchey) and last pair are enve DH. Also had some promax/box bars on my X bike that took some abuse and REALLY softened up the ride. No issues (yet). At this point, I dont torque them to spec as the brake levers and shifter actually feel like they are over-tightening the bars. Combine that with a clamp that doesn't apply equal force across the circumference of the bar and its trouble for sure. Carbon paste and tighten till it feels like just enough. Stem clamp bolts are however torqued to spec. You would have almost NONE of these issues with a good aluminum bar like the ones offered from thomson etc. 2nd the renthal comment but wish theyd dial down the gold accents.

Damn son. I’m just not made for that kind of riding. My hat is off. That stuff looked real gnarl in the bar snap vid.

The funny thing is that I'd bet that the premium for making these frames in the US/Canada vs Taiwan is less than $800. I bet there is a decent number of people who would love to buy an American made carbon frame and would pay that kind of premium to do it. Apparently, Ibis is moving forward with the idea of improving the production process so that a USA made frame might be viable. At least for the front triangle of their size small Ripley LS. No premium for the USA made frame, but you do have to accept a less (differently?) finished looking bike.: Ibis Cycles starts USA production w/ small Ripley LS from Carbon 831

I had a set of Chromag bars for my bike. Didn't like them, way too flexy. My Easton bars are much stiffer.

Wet. Gonna need a day if the rain is done.

For gratuitous serifs-font and low-grade stock background alone, I'm reclaiming "Zeitgeist." I did manage to slough through 46 seconds of this high-production quality drivel. Ron Hubbard would be proud.

Yeah, I'm Gandhi with guns.

This is actually an interesting point. I think it's easy to create a lot of pressure and damage a tube of any kind, but I wonder how much it would take. I bet it's less than it takes to strip a 3mm bolt. The fact it took zero torque to remove tells me it was crushed. I know I don't even use the cheap clicker torque wrench for my bar, I use only a beam wrench on my levers and bar ends. I used to exclusively ride Truvativ (really not that expensive) but my latest bike came with an Enve. So far so good. I put about 10k miles on the Truvativ that was on my Tallboy, now it's my wife's bike. Still looks good. I was also looking at the Chromag page. From the info on their website, it's not a company that inspires confidence in me (translate as: I wouldn't buy from them). They have a lot of sales people, and graphic designers, and apparently one--maybe--technical dude. I didn't see an engineer listed on there. I was concerned with the unidirectional fiber they claim is good for their bars. I'm no ME but I believe I'd want parallel fibers along the length for shear strength, as well as circumferential fibers for crush strength.

theres been discussion about that. but that dropper lever tightens with a 3mm allen wrench. its gonna pre pretty hard in my opinion to he-man torque a 3mm allen wrench so hard it crushes carbon underneath it to the point it snaps of under the weight of me riding on it. and for whatever its worth, it took about zero torque to loosen it off of the broken piece of handlebar

Do you need me to post up the 2 breaks of my Gary Fisher, the crack on my Hammerhead/Titus or the 3 on my knolly? Yeah, frames still break, but not like they used to.

From what I recall, Devinci just redesigned their frames to offer 100% carbon VS the 60/40 with aluminum rear triangle found on previous models. Another thing to consider is bigger travel/enduro bikes are more popular and the shocks they feature are now piggyback or more advanced also driving the price up.

Got the new drivetrain installed after some back and forth obtaining the right parts. Note to self: Shimano sells a shifter that won't bolt on to a handlebar unless you have other Shimano stuff bolted there too. Ordering the correct part the first time would result in faster conversion. Taking advantage of the air conditioning outside today I tested the 1x11 (Juan El Eban, get it?) on familiar trails and found that the range of 11-46 coupled to a 32 up front provided everything I needed to have a great time. Plus the added bonus of no longer having to keep in mind which ring I'm on. That aspect was liberating, as now I only have one shifter to deal with and felt no lost love for the parts removed. Sorry, front derailleur and shifter, you'll have to accept that it is over between us. Hands down, this is the best $180 I've spent on the bike I can recall. The fact that as we age, recall becomes suspect, further exemplifies how losing the other shifter is a win-win. The shifting is the most crisp and positive of any rear derailleur I've owned. The combo of clutched derailleur and narrow-wide ring was flawless. In addition to the front derailleur and shifter I also removed a dual step chain roller that was no longer needed. It is a very clean machine now. Also filled the left-hand shifter's vacant spot with a Knog Oi bell. An amazing low-profile dinger that fits snugly between grip and brake, almost disappearing behind the lever for the X-Fusion dropper. Gotta love a tidy set of controls.

Back when my TF MTB was stolen, I ended up riding my gravel bike at WC for about 6 weeks. I was coaching/leading my kid's MS & HS MTB club. I had to be out there with them. But they also didn't ride the chunky stuff, so it was no problem really. -CJB

I use headset spacers cut from old bent frames. I have a small 8ish mm lift block on my Shimano Shadow+ RD pinch screw to change the pull ratio so I can run a SRAM 9spd shifter on one of my bikes. I make my own tubeless valves stems by cutting them out of old tubes. I use gorilla tape for tubless instead of Stans. I used to make my own sealant too, but I got lazy. I broke a Maxle lever, so I put an allen bolt through the rivet hole and use a wrench to tighten it. I cut SS cog spacers from pvc pipe. I hammered pvc fittings into some of my handlebars to widen them 10-20mm. That's just off the top of my head for recent years... whatever works, IMO.

You said dropper - you are out of the competition. We will only allow Hite Rite.

I'll be the 46yo white guy with a white jersey and a white helmet on a white bike because evidently I'm Roy Rogers. If you don't see me right away just wait about 20 minutes and I'll be the guy who is out of water already and bringing up the rear. -cls

Hope to see you there. I'll be the 60 year old white dude with a shaved head and lots of tattoos. Probably not too hard to spot among all the youngsters.

This is not gravel. The EB is a mental game. You need to ride each trail system independently, so you know what to expect, how long it will take, and where you are in the big scheme of things. For me, at least, the road connectors are a time to settle back, relax, listen to some tunes, and hydrate. Having said all that - yes, it's harder than a 100k gravel race .... but not impossible!

Did you ever see this Strava ride? He hit all the areas. Not much road, not much repeating. He left a little trail on the table in each area, but it was a dang good ride. https://www.strava.com/activities/1677023345

Took a spin out there on Labor Day. I hadn't been on those trials since Spring. Over the years there have been changes going on, some good, some bad, some could as easily be judged either way. Overall, the conditions were great. At the end of the Summer bake everything was dry and felt good under tire. The fact that temps equated to air-conditioned riding was nice as well. I rode out to Omar's and bailed. got in 14 or so miles and it felt good. Mostly. Riding out there these days as just another trail user, after having invested heavily working on those trails, has left me with a perspective bearing a distinct bias about how I think things should be. That isn't my place in the picture there and dealing with my choice sometimes confounds me. Over the past few years I've seen many of the challenging creek-crossing sections on Off the Lip, Longhorn Loop and TrisCross have been bypassed. Still I find myself preparing for a grunt tech section and then realize it just isn't there any more. Some of these had good reason to be bypassed as erosion had taken its toll, others offer enough value to the trail that, to me, they could have been used. Cutting a smooth line through the woods to avoid them was only a form of sanitizing and wasn't very creative. Still, I am grateful that someone is out there doing work. Granted, a few of the sections still offer the choice of taking the old or the new path, but I don't find this sort of design intuitive, particularly if there is no signage to let a rider know that both go to the same place. Events carve the route those riders used into what appears to be "THE" trail. On the other hand, these new sections flow very well and that can be good. Admittedly, I found myself following these new sections on my ride as a few attempts on one or two of the old lines revealed they are overgrown. Then, there's the gravel mining that continues to threaten RHR trails. Those cat-skinner operators tend to not look at where the trails are and either cut right up to the edge, taking away that "riding through the woods" feeling and turning it into "riding through a recently leveled parking lot" feeling. Or, they just cut right through the trail and it is interrupted or eliminated. There were a pile of tall pines pushed from a gravel operation that have fallen across a section of Longhorn Loop just after the 9-mile bailout. There is still a lot of fun trail out there, but having ridden there for a couple of decades and put heart and soul into those trails for about ten years of that, I find myself saddened over the losses time brings. The magical place that once sported a Saloon, the Rocky Burger, live music, trails, no fucking bulldozers, with a community from all walks of life that congregated at RHR is but a fond memory of a perfect riding spot and a fun place to just hang out, drink a cold one, and watch a sunset. Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be. Come get some RHR while the getting is still good.